1P5'er Steve Skojec And One Peter Fivers VERSUS MÉLANIE OF LA SALETTE

Melanie fabricated this last message........as a cry for attention ~ Steve Skojec 

The fact is, I'm in the attention business ~ Steve Skojec

Steve Skojec Mod > kono859 • 7 days ago wouldn't the Church not want to declare these prophesies as true? That's an argument that is sometimes made. That said, the Franciscans themselves abandoned the apocryphal prophecy of St. Francis long before the Church began to resemble it in the 21st century. Melanie's later secret has been held suspect for a long time as her own invention, largely because it took place so long after the original apparitions. In fact it is quite likely that Rome will become a seat of the Antichrist, as Cardinal Newman's own treatises (IIRC) on the Antichrist explain. But nonetheless, her statement on that comes from questionable material. And I think I've already tipped my hand in the articles we've published about the Third Secret of Fatima. I do believe there's more, and Cardinal Ottaviani's paraphrase, if actually his, rings true...but we don't know that it's true. We don't want to predicate arguments upon questionable sources if at all possible, especially not arguments of this much importance. Even if the sources may be right in fact, if they are not credible, then it's just broken clock syndrome. You see, in all of this, my point is that we can't have the kind of certitude about the situation that permits us to proclaim it as undeniable, which is what, if I'm not mistaken, Ann is doing here. That's for the Church to decide, not us, and it's a distraction, I think, from the real problem. And if the Church hasn't favored certain prophecies with its own imprimatur, then we wait for exactly that to happen before we can have confidence there, either. Remember, if Francis is not an antipope, he's actually far more dangerous. I happen to believe that this is the case. I'm not arguing that it's not as bad as Ann thinks. I'm only arguing that it's different.

Paul Dale > Steve Skojec • 7 days ago So Melanie's can be doubted after being written down years after but Sister Lucy's are not? Come on. The truth surely is that once you have an encounter with Mary, a saint or an angel you never forget. 

Steve Skojec Mod > Paul Dale • 6 days ago My understanding is that there have always been concerns that Melanie fabricated this last message later on, whether as a cry for attention (she was living a cloistered life, and perhaps missed the buzz of being a seer) or for some other reason. The earlier visions of La Salette are not in dispute. And of course, it's possible that this message is real. But without being able to verify its authenticity, it strikes me as a tenuous data point in arguing a case for moral certitude on an issue of this importance. I myself have cited this same message in the past, though with the caveat that we don't know if it is authentically from the Blessed Virgin. I'm not seeing the comparison with Sister Lucia, since to the best of my knowledge, none of her statements about what she was told have ever been called into question. 

Paul Dale > Steve Skojec • 6 days ago From my understanding Melanie was so vilified and hounded by the French clergy that she may well have suffered a persecution complex, but I read I think on the Abbe de Nantes site that Melanie was in a room with a priest when she wrote her vision down and asked him how do you spell "antichrist". This much we should know that it appears in the message. I think that there was a similar situation with Maximin. It is a Church approved vision. Re Lucia, didn't Cardinal Ratzinger call into question her veracity as a witness in the shameful debunking of 2001? 

I am not Spartacus > Paul Dale • 5 days ago The Sermon of His Excellency Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre On the Occasion of the Episcopal Consecration.... excuse myself for continuing this account of the apparition but she speaks of a prelate who will absolutely oppose this wave of apostasy and impiety - saving the priesthood by forming good priests. I do not say that prophecy refers to me. You may draw your own conclusions. I was stupefied when reading these lines but I cannot deny them, since they are recorded and deposited in the archives of this apparition. Of course, you well know the apparitions of Our Lady at La Salette, where she says that Rome will lose the Faith, that there will be an "eclipse" at Rome; an eclipse, see what Our Lady means by this..." Simply disgusting. He had to have known Melanie's message was condemned but he referenced it to justify his perfidy. He had lost the Faith and he was starting his own petite ecclesia 

Paul Dale > I am not Spartacus • 5 days ago Who condemned it? 

I am not Spartacus > Paul Dale • 5 days ago Dear Paul Dale. Lefebvre said this: The See of Peter and posts of authority in Rome being occupied by Antichrists, the destruction of the Kingdom of Our Lord is being rapidly carried out even within His Mystical Body here below. and you are his faithful acolyte and so you would not accept any condemnation of Melanie's message unless it came from Lefebvre his own self. So, whats' the point? ....After years of moving from convent to convent, and never progressing beyond the novitiate, Melanie stayed in Castellamare from 1867 onward. When new religious orders were being formed at La Salette in 1878, Melanie claimed she was authorized to provide their rules and habits. This request was denied by the bishop and by the Pope himself in an interview with Melanie. It is in reaction to this thorough rejection by the Church hierarchy that Melanie wrote her new tract, full of bitter invective against a supposedly faithless clergy. Not contrary to faith and morals in the narrow sense, it received an imprimatur, but in 1880 the Holy Office forbade her to write further tracts. Few copies of the 1879 tract were circulated, and it was published again more widely in 1904. A third printing in 1922, with a new imprimatur, finally resulted in Rome’s placing of the tract on the Index of Prohibited Books in 1923. The decree of the Holy Office reads: DAMNATUR OPUSCULUM: “L’APPARITION DE LA TRÉS SAINTE VIERGE DE LA SALETTE” DECRETUM Feria IV, die 9 maii 1923 In generali consessu Supremae Sacrae Congregationis S. Officii Emi ac Rmi Domini Cardinales fidei et moribus tutandis praepositi proscripserunt atque damnaverunt opusculum: L’apparition de la trés Sainte Vierge sur la montague de la Salette le samedi septembre 1846.—Simple réimpression du texte intégral publié par Mélanie, etc. Societé Saint-Augustin, Paris-Rome-Bruges, 1922; [Acta Apostolicae Sedis (1923) {PDF}, pp. 287-288. See also related decrees of the Holy Office.] 

Paul Dale > I am not Spartacus • 5 days ago Who in the Church has condemned the apparition?

I am not Spartacus > Paul Dale • 5 days ago Vatican 1 [Holy See] The Roman pontiffs, too, as the circumstances of the time or the state of affairs suggested, sometimes by summoning ecumenical councils or consulting the opinion of the churches scattered throughout the world, sometimes by special synods, sometimes by taking advantage of other useful means afforded by divine providence, defined as doctrines to be held those things which, by God's help, they knew to be in keeping with sacred scripture and the apostolic traditions. For the holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by his revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by his assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith transmitted by the apostles. Indeed, their apostolic teaching was embraced by all the venerable fathers and reverenced and followed by all the holy orthodox doctors, for they knew very well that this see of St. Peter always remains unblemished by any error, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Saviour to the prince of his disciples: I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren 60] . It was Mons Lefebvre who is responsible for popuarising this delusion of Melanie and trying to pass it off as legit. It show that Lefevbre had LOST the faith. He no longer believed in Infallible doctrine and the promises of Christ for if he did he would never have promoted Melanie's delusion that Mary said Rome would lose the faith. 

Paul Dale > I am not Spartacus • 5 days ago Does the Church recognise the vision of La Salette as authentic? How dare you, a mere layman, vilify the good name of archbishop Lefebvre. By the fruits of his good society you can see that it compares to the unsullied fruits of the post Vatican 2 new church. I don't care who the frig you are, but my sensus catholicus is with the good archbishop. If you can't see that Rome has lost the faith and that we are in the great apostasy as prophesied by St. Paul, then you need to go back to your meds.

I am not Spartacus > Paul Dale • 5 days ago Dear Paul Dale. Then you deny infallible doctrine that the Holy See will never lose the faith and we know that is infallible truth because that is what Jesus promised and what he promised was infallibly reiterated by Vatican 1. Following Lefebvre has led you into dying Catholic Tradition and Infallible Dogma; so, you got that going for ya, which is nice △  
Paul Dale > I am not Spartacus • 5 days ago And the corollary is that following the conciliar church into the sunlit uplands of apostasy has led you into delusion. Donchaknow!

I am not Spartacus > Paul Dale • 5 days ago Dear Paul Dale. That response ricocheted off that Hard Infallible Dogma at such an oblique angle and with such force that it spiraled out of control and ended-up in the fever swamps of schism where its meaning rapidly sank beneath the surface. IANS will simply ask you whether of not you accept the infallible dogma that The Holy See can never lose the Faith?

michael ortiz > I am not Spartacus • 5 days ago The fathers of V1 knew the See of Rome would keep the Faith even as this promise does not pertain to governance, the moral life of a pope, and his opinions about anything including the Faith. It pertains to promulgations of Faith and morals under specific conditions.

I am not Spartacus > michael ortiz • 3 days ago Dear Mr. Ortiz. Yes, but the majority of soi disant traditionalists do not accept that Infallible Dogma for the majority of them have followed Mons Lefebvre in his heresy which he tried to justify by citing the condemned hysterics of Melanie. So it is good to revisit these truths from them to time.

Paul Dale > I am not Spartacus • 5 days ago But IANS hasn't answered my question: is Salette an authentic Catholic vision of Our Lady? We are told that the gates of hell shall never prevail. But at the fateful hour of the cross Peter ran away, In this age of apostasy, Peter denies Christ; we are told that at the time of Antichrists age on earth - 3 1/2 years - Satan will believe that he has conquered God. It will only be by the grace of God that Peter will prevail. Now stop bashing the good archbishop. There is truly no bishop to compare with him in over 50 years. BTW I do not frequent Society chapels, except when in France, but diocesan churches with the TLM

I am not Spartacus > Paul Dale • 5 days ago Dear Paul Dale. So you have followed Lefebvre down the road to denying Infallible doctrine. Good luck with that... Adios

Laura Sedivy > Paul Dale • 6 days ago Just like a truly prophetic dream is imprinted on your mind, with every detail intact and not forgotten.

Pulvis > Steve Skojec • 7 days ago It seems to me that the part of the LaSalette prophesy that says "Rome will lose the Faith and become the seat of the antichrist" doesn't mean that the Pope will be the antichrist but that there will be mass apostasy in Rome including much of the hierarchy (maybe even but hopefully not the Pope himself) and that the antichrist (or type thereof) will set up in the city of Rome. I don't see how the prophesy references an antipope other than the likely-hood of the antichrist having a sort of antipope high priest while the real Pope is in hiding somewhere. Regarding the LaSalette prophesy though, I always thought it was going to play out before the actual end times and that the antichrist mentioned in it was only a type of the main one at the end of the world - that's just the opinion I formed of it by trying to read it in conjunction with what the Scriptures and Saints have said of the end times.

I am not Spartacus > Pulvis • 5 days ago Most men think "Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist" must refer to the Holy See. But that is insanely evil and it is impossible Mary ever said any such thing for then we would be presented with the absurd situation that the Mother of God appeared to tell the chidden that the promises of her son failed miserably. Vatican 1 infallibly taught that the Holy See would forever remain faithful and that ,of course, is exactly what Jesus promised. Those believing Melanie must also believe Jesus lied and was THE worst liar in history for His lies resulted in hundreds of millions of souls being cast into Hell for following His Church which He let Satan take control of. And many believe Melanie because her lies were quoted as accurate prophecy by Mons Lefevbre during the sermon of the mass of consecration for Bishops. Yes, he promoted that vile insane lie as part of his attempt to justify what he was doing O, and he also referenced another prophecy by Mary that said one Bishop had been chosen to save the faith but, said he coyly, he would not say that prophecy identified him as that Bishop. Lord have Mercy; wadda crock of **** by that crackpot but it is largely due to him that the condemned message of Melanie enjoys such spiritual currency to this day; but it is a malign spirit passing off a counterfeit message as some sort of coin of purchase in the economy of Divine Love. ]

Steve Skojec Mod > jofm1 • 5 hours ago No, not being warned to stay away from prophecy. Being warned that some prophecy is false, so stick to the good ones. All the approved apparitions of Our Lady seem to be applicable now, there are great riches to be found in Emmerich, properly understood, St. Hildegard von Bingen is apropos...there's a lot to choose from. Certain prophecies, however, give us cause for concern. And our eagerness to look for answers can offer a certain incentive to believe anything that sounds right. That is where the devil hooks us.

“The great chastisement will come, because men will not be converted; yet it is only their conversion that can hinder these scourges. God will begin to strike men by inflicting lighter punishments in order to open their eyes; then He will stop, or may repeat His former warnings to give place for repentance. But sinners will not avail themselves of these opportunities; He will, in consequence, send more severe castigations, anxious to move sinners to repentance, but all in vain. Finally, the obduracy of sinners shall draw upon their heads the greatest and most terrible calamities. Mélanie

“We are all guilty! Penance is not done, and sin increases daily. Those who should come forward to do good are retained by fear. Evil is great. A moderate punishment serves only to irritate the spirits, because they view all things with human eyes. God could work a miracle to convert and change the aspect of the earth without chastisement. God will work a miracle; it will be a stroke of His mercy; but after the wicked shall have inebriated themselves with blood, the scourge shall arrive Mélanie

“What countries shall be preserved from such calamities? Where shall we go for refuge? I, in my turn, shall ask, What is the country that observes the commandments of God? What country is not influenced by human fear where the interest of the Church and the glory of God are at stake? (Ah, indeed! What country, what nation upon earth?) In behalf of my Superior and myself, I have often asked myself where we could go for refuge, had we the means for the journey and for our subsistence, on condition that no person were to know it? But I renounce these useless thoughts. We are very guilty! In consequence of this, it is necessary that a very great and terrible scourge should come to revive our faith, and to restore to us our very reason, which we have almost entirely lost. Mélanie

Victim of Jesus nee MELANIE CALVAT,
Shepherdess of La Salette

"I protest highly against a different text, which people may dare publish after my death. I protest once more against the very false statements of all those who dare say and write First that I embroidered the Secret; second, against those who state that the Queen Mother did not say to transmit the Secret to all her people." Mélanie


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